Hi I'm Dan Brown of The San Jose Mercury News and welcome to
a special glimpse into football history before there was Joe Montana before there
was Steve Young the forty niners had another Hall of Fame quarterback his name was
Jim Abraham till you know him better is why I say Tittle was one of San Francisco's
first professional stars flinging passes at Keys our stadium from one thousand
fifty one through nine hundred sixty he was part of the forty niners famed million
dollar backfield along with other early greats like Joe the jet Perry Hugh
McElhaney and John Henry Johnson to became such an important figure in our area
first as a player and later as a business men that the cemetery
a County Historical Association honor to the last year with its most prestigious
award the history maker as part of that celebration we sat down with White Total as
home in Atherton at eighty eight years of age the record setting passer can still
sling a good story to Bill's daughter Diane to let herself
a distinguished harpist and poet and author was also kind enough to join our
interview she shared on her thoughts of her father the hero so let's sit back now
and enjoy is we hear how someone born Abraham piddle grew up to make
a name for himself. You grew up in Marshall Texas yes what was Marshall Texas like
when you're growing up home to me it was a beautiful place it has a has
a pretty town it was a. Post and
a dry county there is no alcohol no we're going on it was always there but I went
to church church here is
a great sound though and you met him in that very early in your life as
a mentor in the. She went to. Grammar School when I was the Westin and I
met her and went to junior high school oh my gosh was it
a love at first sight to try to pretty much are dated other girls later and she did
too but. Always said that I want to get other colors and I'm sure my view is we are
and I didn't know her and your daughter was saying that the magazine knew before
and that knew that you're going to propose because you said it in an interview
right and you kind of gave it away I said it into his B.
And I'm not sure her magazine asked me what I was going to do when I graduated said
I did our honors and award but what was our planning we're doing I said I'm
a graduate from college I'm arguing for my school sweetheart and at the lunch she
was gone with another board the time she was one of the University of Arkansas. And
. Her boyfriend supposedly read it in the. In the magazine
got mad and they broke up and I got are. Lucky you lucky who. Or what are your
other first early first love was football and I read that as early as ten years old
you were pretending to be Sammy Sammy bod in the backyard What did you love about
football while my brother played. My brother Jack played it to align University the
past school football and he was model sorter and I always wanted to be as good as
a jock. And so I came to play tonight in New
Orleans and lives in your hands and now knock came along I got
a scholarship to Cora most schools you know as you know I'm chose O.S.U.
Because they were willing to deemphasize their sports. So sports or sellers
you and you were still close to your brother was he. You were geographically you
were close to your brother when you went to college you know yes very much. Well
coming out Alice you were the first player to be drafted in the first round three
times. You have mentioned up in San Francisco in one hundred fifty one by the time
you're forty niners you're competing with Frankie Albert for playing time yes was
he warm to you in that competition is he what was he friendly to you during the
competition. Who became friends later I'd say no not at first
what was it like at first. I asked him one time. When I was going on one of the
game I said Frank Well what the visits are for man or five man I. Want to tell you
you're after my job. With that kind of competition it was you know it was from
a friend of gravitation who later became very good friends what was he like as
a player Frankie Albert Hall he was fascinating it was crazy I mean Brando
a play bootlegged and. Has a great quarterback but not
a great passer. But. He played in that era where ball handling and
faking and it was important and throwing the ball was also important but.
Put a fake or fake in the ball that today to mean nothing he just gets
a ball gotten through it. And it all somebody
a few years later with the Niners you're part of the fame famous million dollar
backfield with Joe Perry Hugh McElhaney John Henry Johnson I'm guessing you guys
didn't really make
a million dollars in that million dollars but no one will. Call total of all of us
to make a million dollars Not
a whole career. One of the nickname come from I don't.
What were those teammates like how fast was Joe Perry Joe Perry was lightning fast
and he jumped offside most in time it was made him faster. He was going by feel
motion and. They didn't call him cause. He was always in motion and I thought
he was fast but he was
a run around guy John he was tough and even though he had. Caught
some out and spit on him from then I say John Kerry don't. Just quit
cousin he's got out because they're taking it out on me and. The defensive players
we're taking it out on you. As
a quarterback when you've got three backs with that kind of talent what your role
how do you take the off where there was not it was first of all so it was like
a living I haven't had that kind of great running backs but it was difficult
because. They all want to carry the ball and so I have sort of.
Cared for Time's John Harris five times not going to he wants it so I'd sort of try
to balance it off of. Your other famous teammate and the other famous combination
is the Pats with R.C.L.
Is so far different variations of how that pass was first born you remember the
first time you ever threw the Al you. Were No No Not totally but pretty much so I
was trying to throw the ball away and then he just he was covered I was just.
Trying to throw it out of bounds and I didn't get thing quite go out of bounds but
he's up and three people were jumping for he he jumped right in the middle of balls
and. Brought the ball down and I said Man Or C. It was
unbelievable he said I can do it every time you know. Well he almost
could it was that something if after that in practice that you started working on
that you. Were no permit. It wavered just as
a nothing but as. I called it the alley or the. It was
a. Cartoon character and
a funny book name. And I did people ask me what did you do with the ball I
just added I just did up there in
a name called on they named him after they made him go. Why did that play work so
so well well what about R.C.
Owens athleticism when his ability to time his job. Was
first of all he was. A good jumper start with make it really jump. And put here
great timing and knew how to time his job sometimes good job hiring catching those
terrorists because he could. Have too there's
a lame duck there just floor him. And all his defensive players because they're all
running major other trying to get to
a course in front of and sometimes catching this his chance was at his basketball
background I think so. But you got it up with more than one nickname I guess it's
a sign of being
a great player but the the colonel How did your Colonel nickname come about because
he called me Colonel slick Colonel So I don't know what that means but. Not only
who gave me the name. But they call me Carl slick. Whatever that means and the bald
eagle and the bald eagle and many other bad names of the friends go on me. Those
are nicknames of pride and like so much.
Use especially so you would Frank Albert essentially started this great quarterback
tradition with the forty niners that went on to include Montana and how far from
Frank was it you know to me he'd already played here. And then I came here I came
here from Baltimore. And. Frank was
a great quarterback but the game it changed. When I came here
I became San Francisco. Their art of the T.
Formation faking in and faking this guy and again you know that was kind of sort of
over it was just. The forward pass I mean more and more that even the ones
who want
a first team formation team is playing the skill of faking the want to fit into
another and pitcher that out was very important part was
a master of that. Born in one nine hundred sixty one to forty nine
a stranger to New York in your queue career flourishes there you have some
fantastic years why was that. Why was that such
a good match you playing New York with the Giants Why was what why was it such
a good match for you playing in New York with the Giants because your career really
had
a second life when I decided to live true. First of all playing in the biggest city
in the world being on Broadway and see your name in lives and how there was forget
that you are great as are my live time and this was walking down through Times
Square metal to get tight birdie there goes around says till Scout skins seven
touchdowns to scout skin and boy my wife and I just stopped and looked at and took
pictures. We were we were in heaven or yeah. Well then and you're huge here
I guess nineteen sixty two throwing thirty six touchdown passes was
a record that student told Dan Marino broken how much pride you're taken to knowing
that touchdown single season touchdown record for so long well I you know.
Amazing sound corny but. I really didn't pay much attention to records.
How does one of the women I want to be the best are but I would just want to win.
But I did. Think about seven touchdowns in one game.
Now I look back at it I could have gone for
a moment didn't do it. How to be showing off. That's what's
a record I hate Oh. I think it is
a yeah I could retire Yeah you could own it I could you know I couldn't. Do it now
if I had a chance to do it all over again and not to wait for
a comeback. In one thousand nine hundred four starts winding down after what you
are I guess referred to as the blood picture the famous photograph of you on your
knees after
a game getting hit what do you think about when you see that picture. Well.
It made me famous more than anything else. But. I don't
remember who I remember getting hit and I don't remember that I do remember that
talk of years ago coming up and sticking the camera right in my face or underneath
me and she had no over the place. And I don't remember who it me. But I
was helped. Well your career winds down after that but you had even as
a player started insurance business. Why did you started so early. Well
everybody has to do something and the old soon you had. The moment where you made.
Good money as
a football player but what if you didn't work in the offseason Oh all your money
that you played for would be spent and you would save me and I and so I had
a chance to go home with
a friend. And asked me to become
a partner and I hardly had become
a miner partner and then eventually bought him out in the rational men. Not only
business credit again came an opportunity. To do so many other players are
unprepared for life after football if you spoke with other players about being
ready for that next step in life you know I haven't talked to anybody like that.
Normally Today they make enough money they don't have to worry about that you know
nowadays right they really are the million dollar back to where we had to worry
about. In one nine hundred seventy one year in trying to the Pro Football Hall of
Fame What does that undermine to you everything well what I mean.
Oh I've was from
a little kid it was his football prom junior high school in Marshall dogs is to
Marshall High School. And to Ellis you. Know my years. Of
Football was
a life for me. And. Nearly to the Hall of Fame has.
It's because honor my life. And then finally my last question you've been blessed
with such
a wonderful family wonderful home to your back. Over there is my turn
Diane somewhere and one of the biggest harm and I. Know. This and
in sports it was
a big honor yes. Why thank you so much for making the time and we're here to talk
to you and George only to you both thank you so much when people say when they when
they come up to him. I think what is so wonderful for me for so many years is
that dad has been on a first name basis with the world he's never Mr title it's
a way hey you know hey it's it's. It's like he
he he's just always been on
a first name basis with the world so whatever is said. There's
a feeling that he's a part of their lives in they're
a part of his his life and and so it goes and it's been that way for
a very very long time we've gone back to East Texas recently and to you and I've
just been amazed at. The way memories gather and people when they choose to
remember the good. Really do celebrate. The moments that Dad gave
them to imagine when he was out there doing his best and and going for the the
touchdown it's very sweet it's
a very it's amazing really because. It's really
a privilege to have been
a witness to to that kind of exchange you member dawning on you as
a kid that everybody knew your father like when you do realize he was you were the
daughter of
a star. You know. When Dad got traded to New York it was
as though we all went through
a divorce it seemed terrible that that dad was going to leave our team our
town our community so I dad had kept his career
believe it or not as something so very separate from our day in day out our
family life that I really wasn't aware that. Of his quote
unquote fame until he was traded prior to that I was always as
a young child very protective of my father who seemed so vulnerable you know I
think I I mentioned somewhere that most kids had fathers who were larger than
life and mine from where I sat in the stands was no larger than my thumb and he was
always getting squashed and he was always beaten beaten up come Monday morning so I
always felt that I didn't feel or exultant his fame until much
much later because he always seemed so so. So fragile to me as
a little person but in New York of course suddenly you know Those were heady days
and I was coming of age and I sort of knew more of what was going on beyond my
instinctive desire to defend him from those who would you know beat him into the
earth you know you've written
a book Giants and heroes about life with your father what what inspired you to
write this book. Well to be honest with you as
a little girl I was always fascinated by. By the hero and
why people would come up to me and say Well your father is
a hero your father is an athletic hero and for me the obvious you know result of
that question was to ask myself what is
a hero why are athletes considered heroes what does it mean to be
a hero what do you do I mean how is I going to make that definition relevant
in my own life you know and then again the other the sequel to that is well it's
only a game well what is
a game and it's certainly deadly serious for those of us in our family who were
always in pursuit of that champion chip that championship moment whatever it was it
came to mean something to everyone in my family beyond points on
a score board so. Just growing up in the midst of this.
This war in the presence of this word hero athletic hero. I made it
my business to praise heroes at the harp I became
a harpist. As an adult
a professional harpist and I left classical repertoire behind because I was really
interested in the oral tradition and in praising heroes at the harp and in praising
heroes with the written word with my poetry. With the book that I wrote it's all
a part of my ongoing struggle to define the hero because I
think this was something of my legacy as
a football player's daughter to ask the question not to have the answer but to ask
the question and fortunately for me. As I continue to wonder
about the hero it led me in some wonderful new directions in in my own creative
life one of which I think I mentioned previously was the discovery of. One of the
world's first sports writers an ancient poet by the name of Pindar who wrote
victory songs for the winners in the ancient games and I was drawn to the way he
saw sport because it was said of Pindar that he saw in the moment
a victory and I'm quoting here
a kind of transcendence briefly remaking radiant an otherwise dark and brutal world
and I was so fascinated with his verse his celebration of the athlete
and the way he saw the victory as something more than points on
a score board and of course for my father who's dream it had been from six years
old to to live his passion in the world.
This through me and I wrote
a book that was to my way of thinking an attempt to add to my definition of the
hero and then to. To rekindle this tradition of
praising the hero even if I didn't quite have the working definition down. To
to making a praise song from my father and not for
a victory Pindar praised victories I praised
a defeat I chose the one nine hundred sixty three championship game where I was the
little girl crying in the stands to be that. That challenge so that I could
define the hero in light of the way that many heroes just have to give their
all for whatever the moment gives and. And celebrate the good struggle and
that's what my father gave me on that day to imagine the relentless struggle to
give his best to be his best and that's what I saw it took me decades to try to put
words to it but that's what I tried to put words to In my book. Which is
about many things about my father about my life but at the root of it it's the same
old question what is
a hero and why do we have the heroes we have or honored to be. Paying tribute to
a hero what does his army into the family. This is
a great honor given to my dad by the. San Mateo County Historical
Association as the history maker of two for two thousand and fourteen.
You know Dad has received many honors in his life but this again this is this is
home for us this is our community and to be
a history maker. Implies that you have
contributed something to the community that you give something to your community
community no matter what you do no matter what your field of endeavor is and it's
an honor that my dad should be remembered for. For his life.
Not just as an athlete who won but for the kind of man he is. Was married to my
mother for sixty five years my dad is
a great grandfather he last year taught my two granddaughters how to go out for
a pass my daughter was running deep in this and that it's
a great honor for the family and of course all of the family will be there were all
included in the celebration and I appreciate that Mitch postal and everyone
involved is. Making it
a real story telling and. And that's that's
a thrill for us thanks so much for joining us you know why digital spent seventeen
seasons in professional football and he made the Pro Bowl seven times when he was
inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in one nine hundred seventy one his
induction class included the likes of Norm Varian Rockland Jim Brown and Vince
Lombardi was to clear up
a few of the other questions left unanswered in our conversation why digital is
indeed the only player drafted in the first round three times. The first two times
came in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight when he was taken by the Cleveland
Browns of the All-American Football Conference about the Detroit Lions of the
N.F.L.
The third time came in one nine hundred fifty one when the Niners selected him in
the first round of the dispersal draft and as for the question regarding which
opposing player tackled title just before the photographer stepped the famous
photograph of the helmet less quarterback on his knees Well that was Pittsburgh
Steelers defensive end John Baker who did it on September twentieth one thousand
nine hundred sixty four thanks to you at home for coming along on this journey into
football's past and thanks of course to the Y
a total family for the special glimpse into the into the life of one of the N.F.L.
Zz all time greatest players until we meet again I'm Dan Brown of The San Jose
Mercury News.